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LETTER TO THE EDITOR: Obama is the wrong choice for all

Abstract:
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ziggles

posted 11/11/08 @ 10:12 PM EST

Should we vote for the US president based on what's best for the United States or what's best for Israel?

Basing it on what's best for the U.S. seems a bit more logical to me (consider, erm, that this is america, not israel).
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Ian

posted 11/12/08 @ 2:49 PM EST

Ziggles, Good for America is not a set that is exclusive to Israel, unless we have returned to the days of exclusion. So, in your opinion, to include Obama means excluding Israel, and to you that seems fair. So, a history of ties between the two countries must give way to the Farrakhan, Ayers, Reverend Wright alliance. Do you think your new realist Mersheimer and Wall ideology of appeasing your enemies will gain anything for America, or are you too exploitative to maintain standards that return one to the nostalgic notion of standing for justice, the rule of law, democracy, equality and freedom. With American patriots like you, who needs America? You can apply for a passport at the UN for universal civilian status, join the melting pot of slavery, child murder, female circumcision, beheadings, amputations, starvation, rape, dictatorship. You should feel right at home.
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James

posted 11/12/08 @ 4:58 PM EST

"You would think that Jews, who suffered the Holocaust, would be more careful about riding the public sentiment based on anger and disillusionment, voting someone without joy in his heart or even love, a totally political animal."

Umm...I voted for Obama not out of anger but out of hope that America can actually be the country it promises to be. Where are you getting this joy thing? He seems to be the opposite of your description there. Also, nothing says you have no valid arguments like dredging out the Holocaust. But to borrow from your playbook: You'd think that Jews, who suffered the Holocaust, would vote for someone advocating for civil rights and liberties--oh wait, the did.


"Nothing he has said or done indicates that he cares about anyone other than himself, and isn't that what we suffered from the last eight years and longer?"

Nothing? Really? Have you not been listening? All he talks about is how to fix the problems others have. Isn't that why he's branded a socialist because he wants to "redistribute wealth" to those who are suffering. His health care plan and his tax policy are all about helping others.

"Who says Obama will be a good president or is even qualified? It is the ultimate form of moral relativism to elect someone out of an antipathy to the other side."

Who says McCain would be a good president or is even qualified? (See how easy it is to turn stupid rhetorical questions around?). What's wrong with moral relativism anyway? And also, I didn't vote for Obama because of my "antipathy" to McCain but because I disagreed with what he was saying. His health care plan would have cost Americans millions, his tax policy would have further bankrupted our country (by decreasing tax revenue not increasing through his tax cuts thus causing a bigger budget gap) and his social views are antiquated at best (lets not even talk about his delusions on the war). Isn't that the point of elections? You vote for the guy who you think will do best and actually says the things you stand for rather than the other guy who doesn't say the things you stand for?

"It is a form of moral and willful blindness, and the reason to be a Jew is to never falter in the difficulty of taking moral positions that aren't comfortable."

Agreed. This is why Jews should favor Gay marriage.

"Enjoy the ride to oblivion, because that is where Obama will lead to."

Seriously, this country has fallen so far under Bush that it's hard to imagine it falling any further (and I voted for him in 2000). But if you do have a time machine and have seen the "ride to oblivion" can you please specify exactly what this oblivion entails? I'm curious.

"So, in your opinion, to include Obama means excluding Israel, and to you that seems fair."

That's not what he said at all. He said that it's more important for a US citizen to consider the best path of the U.S. when voting then for Israel. If it's a choice between saving Israel and saving the U.S. in some far out hypothetical scenario, a U.S. citizen is expected to side with the U.S. just like an Israeli citizen with Israel.

"So, a history of ties between the two countries must give way to the Farrakhan, Ayers, Reverend Wright alliance."

Right. Let's not talk about some of the connections McCain had to questionable "religious" hate mongers. The Ayers connection is almost laughable and to bring it up either means you've drank the koolaid or again have no legitimate arguments and are just throwing it out there to pretend it's an argument. They sat on a committee together a long time ago and barely interacted. I'm sure I've sat on committees with people that have at one point done bad things too. I'm not sure what Obama's connection with Farrakhan is but he has thoroughly denounced him. As for reverend Wright...i'm not going to defend what he said, but I don't particularly care. Obama did not say those things and McCain and Palin's crazy priests have run the gamut from racist to believing in witch craft to all sorts of crazy things...and here's the thing...they didn't lose my vote because of them.

"Do you think your new realist Mersheimer and Wall ideology of appeasing your enemies will gain anything for America, or are you too exploitative to maintain standards that return one to the nostalgic notion of standing for justice, the rule of law, democracy, equality and freedom."

Who said anything about appeasing? If your definition of appeasing is negotiating then perhaps you should look internally to Israel who has been negotiation without preconditions with "terrorists" for a very long time. As for standing for Justice, rule of Law, democracy and equality of freedom...that's exactly what Obama promises and has laid out how he will deliver. He will not be like Bush and spit on the constitution of the United states...the one that promises habeaus corpus, clearly defines limitations of the president, says the VP is part of the executive branch, bans torture, guarantees right to privacy (free from spying govt), right to freedom of speech, etc. Instead he has promised to return those rights to Americans (where as mccain has not). That's what binds our democracy and brings justice, equality of freedom and the rule of law to the country. Not nuts on tv saying that you won't have it if a liberal is elected.

"With American patriots like you, who needs America?" Apparently you don't. Perhaps you should consider staying in Israel or better yet move to Iran since apparently your definition of a patriot is one who votes for your candidate rather than actually votes based on principles and issues.

"You can apply for a passport at the UN for universal civilian status, join the melting pot of slavery, child murder, female circumcision, beheadings, amputations, starvation, rape, dictatorship."
Now there's a well argued sentence. What does the UN have to do with this?

"You should feel right at home." Apparently you would.
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James is Awesome

posted 11/19/08 @ 10:34 AM EST

I just wanted to say that James, whoever you are, you are awesome! What a slap in the face response.

Originally posted by

James

 "You would think that Jews, who suffered the Holocaust, would be more careful about riding the public sentiment based on anger and disillusionment, voting someone without joy in his heart or even love, a totally political animal."

Umm...I voted for Obama not out of anger but out of hope that America can actually be the country it promises to be. Where are you getting this joy thing? He seems to be the opposite of your description there. Also, nothing says you have no valid arguments like dredging out the Holocaust. But to borrow from your playbook: You'd think that Jews, who suffered the Holocaust, would vote for someone advocating for civil rights and liberties--oh wait, the did.


"Nothing he has said or done indicates that he cares about anyone other than himself, and isn't that what we suffered from the last eight years and longer?"

Nothing? Really? Have you not been listening? All he talks about is how to fix the problems others have. Isn't that why he's branded a socialist because he wants to "redistribute wealth" to those who are suffering. His health care plan and his tax policy are all about helping others.

"Who says Obama will be a good president or is even qualified? It is the ultimate form of moral relativism to elect someone out of an antipathy to the other side."

Who says McCain would be a good president or is even qualified? (See how easy it is to turn stupid rhetorical questions around?). What's wrong with moral relativism anyway? And also, I didn't vote for Obama because of my "antipathy" to McCain but because I disagreed with what he was saying. His health care plan would have cost Americans millions, his tax policy would have further bankrupted our country (by decreasing tax revenue not increasing through his tax cuts thus causing a bigger budget gap) and his social views are antiquated at best (lets not even talk about his delusions on the war). Isn't that the point of elections? You vote for the guy who you think will do best and actually says the things you stand for rather than the other guy who doesn't say the things you stand for?

"It is a form of moral and willful blindness, and the reason to be a Jew is to never falter in the difficulty of taking moral positions that aren't comfortable."

Agreed. This is why Jews should favor Gay marriage.

"Enjoy the ride to oblivion, because that is where Obama will lead to."

Seriously, this country has fallen so far under Bush that it's hard to imagine it falling any further (and I voted for him in 2000). But if you do have a time machine and have seen the "ride to oblivion" can you please specify exactly what this oblivion entails? I'm curious.

"So, in your opinion, to include Obama means excluding Israel, and to you that seems fair."

That's not what he said at all. He said that it's more important for a US citizen to consider the best path of the U.S. when voting then for Israel. If it's a choice between saving Israel and saving the U.S. in some far out hypothetical scenario, a U.S. citizen is expected to side with the U.S. just like an Israeli citizen with Israel.

"So, a history of ties between the two countries must give way to the Farrakhan, Ayers, Reverend Wright alliance."

Right. Let's not talk about some of the connections McCain had to questionable "religious" hate mongers. The Ayers connection is almost laughable and to bring it up either means you've drank the koolaid or again have no legitimate arguments and are just throwing it out there to pretend it's an argument. They sat on a committee together a long time ago and barely interacted. I'm sure I've sat on committees with people that have at one point done bad things too. I'm not sure what Obama's connection with Farrakhan is but he has thoroughly denounced him. As for reverend Wright...i'm not going to defend what he said, but I don't particularly care. Obama did not say those things and McCain and Palin's crazy priests have run the gamut from racist to believing in witch craft to all sorts of crazy things...and here's the thing...they didn't lose my vote because of them.

"Do you think your new realist Mersheimer and Wall ideology of appeasing your enemies will gain anything for America, or are you too exploitative to maintain standards that return one to the nostalgic notion of standing for justice, the rule of law, democracy, equality and freedom."

Who said anything about appeasing? If your definition of appeasing is negotiating then perhaps you should look internally to Israel who has been negotiation without preconditions with "terrorists" for a very long time. As for standing for Justice, rule of Law, democracy and equality of freedom...that's exactly what Obama promises and has laid out how he will deliver. He will not be like Bush and spit on the constitution of the United states...the one that promises habeaus corpus, clearly defines limitations of the president, says the VP is part of the executive branch, bans torture, guarantees right to privacy (free from spying govt), right to freedom of speech, etc. Instead he has promised to return those rights to Americans (where as mccain has not). That's what binds our democracy and brings justice, equality of freedom and the rule of law to the country. Not nuts on tv saying that you won't have it if a liberal is elected.

"With American patriots like you, who needs America?" Apparently you don't. Perhaps you should consider staying in Israel or better yet move to Iran since apparently your definition of a patriot is one who votes for your candidate rather than actually votes based on principles and issues.

"You can apply for a passport at the UN for universal civilian status, join the melting pot of slavery, child murder, female circumcision, beheadings, amputations, starvation, rape, dictatorship."
Now there's a well argued sentence. What does the UN have to do with this?

"You should feel right at home." Apparently you would.
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Ian

posted 11/12/08 @ 7:08 PM EST

My point of making a deal with the devil may not pay off as much as you hope for. Moral relativism is moral blindness in the service of self-interest. My suspicions inform me that someone who could vote for Bush and then Obama are emblematic of someone lacking a moral compass, going from one extreme to the other. What makes America special, in spite of its blind allegiance to freedom in economic affairs that has failed so dramatically,is its moral compass. America, like Israel is a new country, one built on idealism and principle. What sets America apart is its sacrifice in the name of what is just and moral, a civil war to end slavery, sacrifice in the name of freedom across the globe. What informs America in its moral quest is a belief in God, something greater than oneself. To believe in something greater than oneself is to realize that we can only hope to be complete human beings, to represent the highest conduct we are capable of. World War II was fought for God, to rescue the people where God didn't exist, in the concentration camps and oppression under the Nazi boot all across Europe and the world. Anyone who thinks what is good for me is good for all puts himself ahead of God and makes a deal with the devil. Moral relativism is the playground of the devil.
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John

posted 11/12/08 @ 7:38 PM EST

They are only extremes if you set the extreme points somewhere near the middle.

In 2000 Bush ran as a moderate and in fact it was hard to tell Gore and Bush apart on most issues. There are by far way more liberal democrats than Obama and by far way more conservative than Bush.

Why are you attacking somoene's moral compas knowing nothing about them? That more reflects on yours then theirs.

You are sadly mistaken about America if you think it derives it's power from a quest to believe in God. On the contrary, it derives its power by the fact that it doesn't impose a God or a belief in one. That's America at it's best.

Nice try with your WWII example. The Catholic church, save a few brave priests, didn't exactly speak out against what Hitler was doing. Neither did most other religious leaders. But you are right, Hilters belief that HIS race/beliefs were superior to others was the reason for the extermination...that said, an overwhelming majority of the other wars, fights in world history were all due to Religion and the belief that God wanted the deaths...crusades, conquests of the Islamic prophet, Ireland, what's happening in Israel with suicide bombers, Darfur, Sudan, Bosnia, Rowanda, etc.

You say: "Anyone who thinks what is good for me is good for all puts himself ahead of God and makes a deal with the devil."
Why is your version of God the right version? Aren't you putting yourself ahead of God by insisting that that your version is good for all? Isn't that what Moral Certitude does? Where as Moral relativism, to it's extreme, is also not good, but perhaps a good rule is Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you? And for that you don't need any religion.
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Ian

posted 11/13/08 @ 4:46 AM EST

Do unto others what you would have them do unto you is a recipe for victimization. What would you do unto them after they decide you have no right to exist? Obama would talk to them.
A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Using moral relativism as a way of profiting is to suffer from terminal naivety. It is frightening to think that Bush's doctrine of promoting democracy where it doesn't exist will be replaced by Obama's do unto others philosophy, which is appeasement in practice. There is an element of truth to moral relativism, but if it is understood as poorly as free market capitalism, more a slogan than a theory worked out, it is equally dangerous. The world isn't a laboratory to experiment in, it has its own nature, rules and laws. Of course there is a dearth of understanding worldwide that has led to a clash of civilizations, but this requires some self-reflection, not in taking the other sides beliefs as one's own. The danger of Obama is how perfectly he fits the bill of moral relativism, he even makes Moslems nervous in not knowing whose side he is really on. I'm guessing and relatively convinced he doesn't know himself. I wouldn't recommend blindly following someone who has no real idea of where he's going. At its best, moral relativism means blessed ignorance, at its worst, surrender.
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Ian

posted 11/13/08 @ 6:01 AM EST

Obama said that Iran is a tiny country, not worth worrying about. Tell that to someone with a tiny cancerous tumor. Tell that when Iran brags about its latest solid-fuel missile test, and its metastasized allies Hamas and Hizbullah. It doesn't matter that Iran doesn't use nuclear weapons against Israel and killing millions in a second Holocaust, it only needs to turn a blind eye to the acquisition of a portable nuclear device by its surrogates. When Einstein, a devoted pacifist and socialist, helped develop nuclear weapons, it was in the belief that man's good nature would overcome his death instinct. But it was also in the belief that when another holocaust comes it comes with a price in the end of the world, there is no turning back when man becomes God in using nuclear weapons to kill with. Nothing is overlooked in establishing meaning and justice, where life and death are equal, there is no room for error or misunderstanding. There is no room for the pursuit of nuclear weapons by an insane regime in Iran who have taken on the role of playing God in their zealous devotion to submission to God's Will, it being their own bankrupt concept of their own. The Jews have given the world civilization, the Judeo-Christian ethic. There is no substitute and there is no room for an oppressive and barbaric pretender. Violence is always directed against oneself, what one hates about oneself. Iran knows its civilization and culture under Shiite Islam is a bankrupt failure and this knowledge is projected on a scapegoat. In the era of nuclear weapons, this insecurity can disappear in a flash. Nuclear annihilation isn't a good substitute for a psychiatric treatment, but to the psychotic mind there is no real difference. Moral relativism is a neurosis akin with psychosis. The test of mental illness is in knowing that you are insane. Moral relativism fails the test of sanity by not knowing it is sick. Moral relativism is the sickness of our age, akin to melancholia or ennui.
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Ian

posted 11/13/08 @ 9:13 AM EST

A good rule of thumb. If one of a countries basic industries is the production of black and white sheets, its a sign of bad tidings. Good sheets make good beds, not good neighbors.
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Ian

posted 11/13/08 @ 9:46 AM EST

This snippet of poem by Sylvia Plath at Smith helps to describe the sentiment that is the equivalent of the emotion or perspective of ennui:
Jeopardy is jejune now: naïve knight
finds ogres out-of-date and dragons unheard
of, while blasé princesses indict
tilts at terror as downright absurd
The sentiment is moral relativism.
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Ian

posted 11/13/08 @ 2:24 PM EST

During Obama's campaign I complained to his campaign that his slogan, "Change We Can Believe In" sounds like Jihad to me. They later changed it for unknown reasons to Change We Need. I was concerned when I learned that the Obama's don't give presents for Christmas or for birthdays, knowing that Moslems don't celebrate birthdays, due to their resistance to celebrate their prophet's birthday, acknowledging that he was mortal. They therefore decided to not celebrate birthdays altogether. Now I am once again concerned over the puppy controversy, that they have been unable to find a hypoallergenic puppy. This seems to be a secular manifestation of the Islamic belief that dogs saliva is unholy and prevents their prayers from being heard, if they are exposed to dog saliva. I'm just wondering when Obama will discover that his beliefs are thinly disguised Islamic beliefs that he may not even consciously be aware of. To have elected such a person President at this time and for Jews to have voted for this candidate is the epitome of foolishness and unresponsibility. It just indicates how low we have sunk in living on anything but the most superficial level of insight or thirst for knowledge.
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James

posted 11/13/08 @ 11:49 PM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 During Obama's campaign I complained to his campaign that his slogan, "Change We Can Believe In" sounds like Jihad to me. They later changed it for unknown reasons to Change We Need. I was concerned when I learned that the Obama's don't give presents for Christmas or for birthdays, knowing that Moslems don't celebrate birthdays, due to their resistance to celebrate their prophet's birthday, acknowledging that he was mortal. They therefore decided to not celebrate birthdays altogether. Now I am once again concerned over the puppy controversy, that they have been unable to find a hypoallergenic puppy. This seems to be a secular manifestation of the Islamic belief that dogs saliva is unholy and prevents their prayers from being heard, if they are exposed to dog saliva. I'm just wondering when Obama will discover that his beliefs are thinly disguised Islamic beliefs that he may not even consciously be aware of. To have elected such a person President at this time and for Jews to have voted for this candidate is the epitome of foolishness and unresponsibility. It just indicates how low we have sunk in living on anything but the most superficial level of insight or thirst for knowledge.


I heard Ian doesn't give presents for Christmas and doesn't celebrate Halloween. He must be an Islamist! Quick find a rock, throw at him! Quick, before he buries himself with his stupidity!
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Ian as extreme as those he despises

posted 11/19/08 @ 10:41 AM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 During Obama's campaign I complained to his campaign that his slogan, "Change We Can Believe In" sounds like Jihad to me. They later changed it for unknown reasons to Change We Need. I was concerned when I learned that the Obama's don't give presents for Christmas or for birthdays, knowing that Moslems don't celebrate birthdays, due to their resistance to celebrate their prophet's birthday, acknowledging that he was mortal. They therefore decided to not celebrate birthdays altogether. Now I am once again concerned over the puppy controversy, that they have been unable to find a hypoallergenic puppy. This seems to be a secular manifestation of the Islamic belief that dogs saliva is unholy and prevents their prayers from being heard, if they are exposed to dog saliva. I'm just wondering when Obama will discover that his beliefs are thinly disguised Islamic beliefs that he may not even consciously be aware of. To have elected such a person President at this time and for Jews to have voted for this candidate is the epitome of foolishness and unresponsibility. It just indicates how low we have sunk in living on anything but the most superficial level of insight or thirst for knowledge.


Dude you are an idiot. During Obama's campaign I complained to his campaign that his slogan, "Change We Can Believe In" sounds like Jihad to me. They later changed it for unknown reasons to Change We Need.

Ever thought Change We Need was shorter, more consise and a better slogan? For someone who thinks that not giving Christmas presents means your Muslim, it raelly seems like you're the one who is just as intolerant and ignorant as those who are muslim extremists. You interpret any kind of diversity as an act against your beliefs. Take a better look at your views, change the context and you are exactly the same.
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James

posted 11/13/08 @ 11:51 PM EST

You do realize his chief of staff is an observant Jew?
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Reuven

posted 11/14/08 @ 3:01 AM EST

I am sorry, author, but your entire article sounds like a rehashing of all the ad hominem attacks against Obama that ever existed strung together in one big, ugly slur, plus some new ones I haven't heard before. You're also opening yourself up to valid criticism by willfully defining Judaism's tenets in one ambiguous phrase to "prove" your point. The Justice editors should feel ashamed to publish poor writing like this.
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Jonny

posted 11/14/08 @ 9:57 AM EST

'Ian' is a classic case of 'trolling' folks. Allow yourselves to be unphased by his attention seeking behavior.
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Ian`

posted 11/14/08 @ 12:53 PM EST

Thank you for all the attention. I would like to read your dissertation on classic internet trolling, because obviously I haven't mastered it yet.
As we learn about how confused our financial gurus and experts are about solving the financial meltdown or even analyzing its cause, and hearing of the billions of end of the year bonuses to financial companies who are being bailed-out, I guess blaming it on a troll is about as useful as anyone else. I prefer to blame it on moral relativism, that we have been so brainwashed by moral relativism we don't even know who to blame. Instead of making a quantitative change to correct the problem we have made a qualitative change. Instead of rejecting moral relativism as part of the problem, we embrace it and utilize it to blindly go where noone has gone before. We made a decision in the election to be more inclusive, in fact, we will accept everyone in finding a solution, that will inevitably result in no solution possible. Instead of electing McCain who would have led the financial rescue by reversing it, we have elected the inclusive President who will solve it by turning the economy inside out. Already, Obama wants to meet with McCain, probably sensing his inability to get a grip on the problem. Instead of electing an American hero in one of the most critical periods in American history, a novice was elected, someone who knows nothing more than how to run a campaign for public office.
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James

posted 11/14/08 @ 3:50 PM EST

Interesting how Ian completely ignores every point he gets schooled on and just brings up new attacks. Shows his "inability to get a grip" on how to have a discussion. Ian is someone who "knows nothing more than how to" parrot silly lines of attack that have been proven false and make logical leaps that even Paris Hilton would recognize as false.
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e

posted 11/17/08 @ 1:56 AM EST

You are a good example of why sometimes I feel extremely embarrassed to be jewish. I don't know if you're ill informed or a closet racist but seriously man, get a grip.
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Ian

posted 11/17/08 @ 6:46 AM EST

Hey E. That says a lot about you, extremely embarrassed to be Jewish. Thank you for being so forthcoming about your problem. It isn't my problem but yours and thank you for clarifying it for me.
Today's Jerusalem Post, another embarrassing set of Jews like me, is reporting a Sunday Mirror article that Obama insiders have disclosed that he is supporting the Saudi peace proposal. In return for all land acquired in the 67 war, Arab states will normalize relations. In other words defenseless borders given back to those who attacked Israel in exchange for declaring an end of hostilities. Not a peace agreement but a declaration of an end to the current state of war, not promising its non-reoccurance at some future date. According to the article Obama is quoted as saying Israel would be "crazy" not to accept the offer. Until now he only promised an ironclad relationship with Israel and non-interference in Israel's security posture. Now we see where all Obama's campaign contributions come from, Saudi money, sent through pre-paid credit cards with no traceable information on the donor.
I know Obama is so adorable like the new born baby of multi-cultural harmony, ready to bring in the new age of nirvana, but seriously, you know nothing about him whatsoever apart that he elicits a kind of motherly affection. Here in the real world, Obama is a human being who likes to hide his past and has no hesitation in recreating himself at moment's notice.
Growing up in Georgia, I learned one thing. What the world wants is for Jews to live up to their promise as the chosen people. Chosen people doesn't mean they are better, only that they were chosen as a superior religion to the pagan religions that preceded it. Anyone who disagrees with this simple fact is an anti-semite, and there are many within the Jewish community, those who doesn't appreciate the beauty and strength of our religion. Trying to fit in and being embarrassed to be Jewish, for whatever reason, is truly pathetic.
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Me= anti semetic = Ian Racist??

posted 11/19/08 @ 10:46 AM EST

Originally posted by

Ian
What the world wants is for Jews to live up to their promise as the chosen people. Chosen people doesn't mean they are better, only that they were chosen as a superior religion to the pagan religions that preceded it. Anyone who disagrees with this simple fact is an anti-semite.



Do you realise that Arabs are also semitic people so what exactly do you mean by that? Growing up in Georgia, and learning just that? Wow, i'd be emabrrased to say I'm from Geoergia with ignorant and inotlerant people like you there. It's so easy for someone like you to call anyone who differs anti-semite. Would you like someone to call you racist anytime you didn't like Obama? Sounds a little unfair man. I'd also be scared to run into you in the street at any time.
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Warren

posted 11/25/08 @ 11:05 AM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 What the world wants is for Jews to live up to their promise as the chosen people. Chosen people doesn't mean they are better, only that they were chosen as a superior religion to the pagan religions that preceded it. Anyone who disagrees with this simple fact is an anti-semite, and there are many within the Jewish community, those who doesn't appreciate the beauty and strength of our religion. Trying to fit in and being embarrassed to be Jewish, for whatever reason, is truly pathetic.

Are equating refuting a smug sense of superiority with embarrassment? As a fiercely proud Reform Jew of Ashkenazi descent and Brandeis alum ('95), now I'm not only embarassed to be Jewish, but embarassed to be an alumnus.

Folks, fundies like Ian are bound to pop up at Brandeis (they did in my day, and always will); they're drawn to Brandeis for its Jewish majority and then throw hissy fits when they discover than not everyone who labels themselves "Jewish" keeps all 613 commandments, sings the exact same grace after meals or thinks that Zionism was a good idea. Let him stew in his tin-foil hat in his dorm and let's get on with our lives.
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Ian

posted 11/17/08 @ 7:38 AM EST

Many of Obama's top and closest advisers are slum-lords in Chicago who made millions by being real estate developers who then received government grants for their housing units.
Read this article from today:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/obam-n17.shtml
Obama likes to associate himself with people who remind one of the carpetbaggers after the Civil War. Who is Obama friends with? A Brandeis professor is quoted in the article.
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JJ

posted 11/18/08 @ 1:20 AM EST

Ian, to think that I believed that there were only Islamic extremists. You have opened my eyes to the fact that there is Extremism alive and well, every time you spew your vitriol, in the Jewish faith.
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Ian

posted 11/18/08 @ 2:26 PM EST

JJ: Why do I find that hard to believe that you never thought there were Jewish extremists. Comparing me to Islamic extremists is a good example of moral relativism. Thanks for making my point. You'll be lucky if you never come across an Islamic extremist, since many like their enemies dead and that includes women and children, elderly, just about everybody.
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JJ

posted 11/18/08 @ 10:04 PM EST

Ian, I don't give a hoot about moral relativism. I do care, however, about religious fanatics such as yourself spewing your hate and bigoted propaganda. I am not as concerned with Islamic extremists as I am with people like you who live and work in my neighborhood, poisoning the minds of our children. And, yes, I am a mother. One who is smart enough and concerned enough to raise my child as an agnostic, away from the taint and stench of organized religion. Please don't presume to speak for the downtrodden and oppressed, because you know not of which you speak. Your empty, baseless rhetoric may have some semblance of truth and validity, but for those of us who have faced true oppression and victimization, we see it clearly for what it is -- empty jargon. Save it!
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Ian

posted 11/19/08 @ 3:29 PM EST

JJ, I don't hate anyone. That is the basic fallacy of your argument. Judaism was the first monotheistic religion, the mother of Christianity and well Islam is the antithesis unfortunately. Jews don't hate anyone else, its like hating your own children, something impossible. We don't like people making us scapegoats for their own failures, as we are a very clever and successful people. Unfortunately, we tend to try to fit in and not be true to ourselves, due to a paranoia about not standing out or getting too much notice. That is what I loved about the Southern Baptists and still do, they openly told me I wasn't going to heaven, but in this rejection I realized that they think of us as very important people. It was easy to see this being because we have a rich history and tradition.
Religion is how society is organized. It is a way of knowing the unknowable, to find our place in the world. Of course, it isn't perfect, but the spiritual sense is perfect and it is what needs to be developed. It is a disgrace that we only show love when someone dies or in the closed society of religion. I know everyone hopes that Obama is the new Messiah but he isn't, he is a human being, and a problematic one at that. In our post-modern society we have CEO's who believed they are the only ones worthy of enrichment or deserving of respect. They stole a whole economy of treasure. Obama is feeding his ego and discovering himself by achieving the highest seat in the land, he is a post-modern man. Life has gotten so specialized, so alienated from nature and society that we have lost people only capable of feeling complete by gaining power and control over others. It happens throughout history at turning points, when society is losing control and its way. But we are creating problems where none should exist. We are making a mountain out of a molehill in looking for solutions everywhere but where they are, simple solutions to simple problems. This is where religion nourishes the soul and helps man look within, honestly and clearly, in the search for simple answers, unembellished and without pretense. I'm sorry you're so alienated from religion but it is unfortunately the tragedy of the times we live in. Its sad that we need anti-abortionists to talk about creating a culture of life, but in our entirely secular and materialistic world, freedom is fought for over a woman's body and in slavery. Obama is allied with slumlords. Muslims in Africa sold non-muslim Africans into slavery. There is prejudice within the black community over shades of color. To the black community, Obama is their ticket into the white society they felt excluded from. To the white community, like Oprah, Obama appears to be a black person who doesn't inspire fear. It is all projection onto someone dealing with the most difficult problem possible in a materialist society, which group he belongs within or neither. Islam has succeeded by overcoming tribal differences but that is all it has succeeded in doing. It has created a regimented society where group solidarity overrides individual freedom or identity. My fear is that Obama's giant ego and authoritarian behavior suggests some degree of Islamic influence.
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Southern Baptists Laughing at Ian Right Now

posted 11/26/08 @ 4:13 AM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 That is what I loved about the Southern Baptists and still do, they openly told me I wasn't going to heaven, but in this rejection I realized that they think of us as very important people. It was easy to see this being because we have a rich history and tradition.


Ha ha ha! HA HA HA!! I'd laugh harder but I'm out of oxygen--something I apparently share in common with Ian.

Ian, my poor, deranged fellow: you are quite right that the Southern Baptists and many other evangelical Christian Zionists think that we Jews are very important people. But you are quite incorrect that this is because they believe we "have a rich history and tradition." The reason the Southern Baptist Convention and many (but not all) evangelicals support Jewish control of Israel is because the Jews returning to biblical Palestine is a precondition to Armageddon and the return of the Messiah (that's Jesus, if you're keeping score--not Elijah or anyone else you'd be interested in, Ian). The whole point is that Jews must return to Israel so that all of the Jews and other non-Christians of the world can be annihilated in a bloody holocaust and clear way for the "saved" pious Christians to inherit the earth and, you know, party with Jesus like it's 1999.

And just so no one confuses me for Ian, what with the outlandish comments and no support, I'm going to provide a citation to my assertion here: (http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/workforce-management-conflict-resolution/206949-1.html). But don't worry, sports fans; Ian will not be at risk of spraining his finger from clicking on this link because I'm quite certain he won't click on it in the first place. Reading anything other than his own handiwork would be too onerous, not to mention unbecoming a genius of his caliber. In this respect Ian reminds me very much of another great president, Abraham Lincoln--after all, they are both self-taught.

I suppose you could make the argument that needing us to die a cataclysmic death in Armageddon qualifies as a "rich history and tradition," if you are referring to it in the future tense. But, while I'm certainly happy to shake my money-maker as a bona fide V.I.P., you'll forgive me if I don't exactly toast the sentiment behind the outpouring of affection. Judging by how wasted Ian sounds when he writes words into his computer, I'm concerned he has raised a few too many toasts to his newfound BFFs.

Ian, you need a hug. A nice big man-hug. I will totally give you one and even let you cry on my shoulder until all the pain goes away, but only if you promise me that you are in fact a real person and not some computer-generated algorithm designed to systematically seek out and destroy all examples of logic and compassion and hope on the interwebs. Can you do that for me? Wait, STOP! If you just began to type "yes" but were overcome with a feeling of "does not compute," then you've answered my question whether or not you have actual human flesh wrapped around that diabolical circuit board of yours."

And for the fair-minded among you who are reading and participating in this hilarious exchange (and that seems to be everyone whose name doesn't begin with "Ian"), I have to admit that much of this post came in the form of ad hominem attacks on Ian the person rather than Ian the ideas. But at a certain point, well, even the most liberal and tolerant among us need to disregard the possibility that he will have anything of value to say and instead focus on making lemonade with his words. Does that sound tasty, Ian?
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JJ

posted 11/19/08 @ 7:49 PM EST

Ian, from where I am standing, there appears to be just as much to fear from Judaism as Islam. Your arguments are, at best, a vindication of my personal revulsion to organized religion. It is amazing to me how as a Jew you find it so easy to be critical and dismissive of the Black struggle, but would be howling at the top of your voice to any one who would listen, if the same critiques were to be aimed at Judaism. You would be calling me an anti-Semite, and voicing your displeasure were I to say in turn that much of the problems we face as Americans today on an international level are due to our overtly biased support for Israel. Please don't try to rewrite history on slavery and the slave trade, because I could employ the very same revisionist tactics in discussing the past where Jews are concerned, but I won't go there. While you may freely tout Jews as "clever and successful" Blacks on the other hand have not been able to demonstrate those very same attributes because of the legacy of oppression. Believe me, that is about to change. And while you are so busy demonizing our President-Elect, please remember that his grandfather fought in Europe to free your people. In fact, while you are at it, remember also the thousands of Black American soldiers who died in Germany to bring your people freedom while they were not guaranteed personal freedoms in their own country. In closing, maybe you should also pay homage to a Black American who was instrumental in the creation of Israel -- Ralph Bunche. Barack Obama came under fire and a hail of racial insults from Al Quaeda today because of his support for Israel. You may want to digest that while you are busy slamming him before he has even spent 1 day in the Oval Office. Organized Religion is the facade of bigotry and hate, and you have demonstrated this quite successfully.
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Ian

posted 11/19/08 @ 9:26 PM EST

JJ: It is sad that you have to deride my people in order to achieve for your people. There is no doubt about the oppression of blacks. Blacks have contributed to American society way beyond their numbers, as the Jews have. But Muslims sold blacks into slavery, not Jews. Prove me wrong. Maybe you need to open your mind instead of just being angry. The difference between Martin Luther King and the President-Elect, what is that like tribal chief? King changed the world and saved America's soul because he loved his people and loved justice. Love is the greatest moral force on earth and King based his beliefs on religion, and his religion fostered his love. King changed the world but Obama is no MLK. Obama is a political chameleon, a power broker which seems to suit your fancy just fine. I don't have to convince you, you will have a front row seat to all thats wrong with Obama and the post-modern mentality of living in a bubble of self-interest. Obama is no different than Bush and it dishonors the memory of MLK to compare Obama to him. Many Jews fought and some died for the rights of Blacks, and the emancipation of slavery movement was made up of religious people. I'm sorry but it isn't religion that is evil, it is its misuse by bitter people who use it cynically and that is what you're doing by proclaiming your hate for religion, you're just the opposite. Obama is the mirror-image of Bush and two wrongs don't make a right. I'm sorry my saying the Jews are a clever and successful people but its true. Its sad that this offends you and says alot about your deep animosity to Jews. You are an anti-semite.
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JJ

posted 11/19/08 @ 10:19 PM EST

Ian, calling me an anti-semite does not faze me one bit! It is your people's weapon of choice. I can attest to the fact that not one Black person participated in Nazi Germany's atrocities against your people, and I am also just as confident that you can't say the same about your people owning Black slaves. I am not quite sure where you got the idea that I am "Black" but it just stands to reason in your mind, that anyone defending Obama or Blacks must be Black themselves. Obama can never be Bush, and the fact that you can make that comparison, gives evidence of your twisted ideology. Instead of choosing a Black man as his Chief of Staff, he chose a Jew. Yet you have managed to malign him at every turn for imagined and manufactured slights. I can quite easily give a litany of atrocities committed in the name of God and all organized religions, but there is not enough time or space. Contrary to what you may believe, I am neither bitter nor angry -- just enlightened and emancipated.
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Ian

posted 11/21/08 @ 12:51 AM EST

JJ: I assumed you were black when you said that blacks hadn't achieved due to oppression and that was about to change. I interpreted that as a personal declaration of pursuing achievement in the new era. I don't see how Obama being president would change this outside of the doling out of positions and jobs attached to him. You seem to think the election was a sea change in attitudes. Any democratic candidate would have been elected because people voted against Bush. Obama is too much like Bush to discount. His is a personal voyage of self-discovery in the post-modern age. He is on a personal crusade but for himself not for anyone else. He talks about change but he isn't a positive force for change. Even Jesse Jackson sees through his thin facade and you choose to ignore who the real Obama is, who surrounds himself with extremists and slumlords. His personal connections say more about him than his appointments to pursue his agenda. Rahm Emmanuel helped organize the Oslo ceremony where Rabin shook Arafat's hand. You may have noticed that the worst enemies of Israel have led the peace process that has only weakened Israel's security and strengthened terrorism.
Your problem is seeing things with groups and not individuals. You throw around terms recklessly, and you don't seem to understand the meaning of moral relativism. I mention how Jews fought for the rights and equality of blacks and your retort is that no blacks killed Jews in the holocaust, with the rejoinder that Jews owned slaves and you hinted at some deep dark revisionist history about Jews you are embarrassed to expose your ideology with. I stand by my statement that your moral relativistic outlook is unbalanced and down deep you are an anti-semite who derives pleasure from blaming Jews for the problems of others.
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James

posted 11/21/08 @ 2:31 PM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 JJ: I assumed you were black when you said that blacks hadn't achieved due to oppression and that was about to change. I interpreted that as a personal declaration of pursuing achievement in the new era. I don't see how Obama being president would change this outside of the doling out of positions and jobs attached to him. You seem to think the election was a sea change in attitudes. Any democratic candidate would have been elected because people voted against Bush. Obama is too much like Bush to discount. His is a personal voyage of self-discovery in the post-modern age. He is on a personal crusade but for himself not for anyone else. He talks about change but he isn't a positive force for change. Even Jesse Jackson sees through his thin facade and you choose to ignore who the real Obama is, who surrounds himself with extremists and slumlords. His personal connections say more about him than his appointments to pursue his agenda. Rahm Emmanuel helped organize the Oslo ceremony where Rabin shook Arafat's hand. You may have noticed that the worst enemies of Israel have led the peace process that has only weakened Israel's security and strengthened terrorism.
Your problem is seeing things with groups and not individuals. You throw around terms recklessly, and you don't seem to understand the meaning of moral relativism. I mention how Jews fought for the rights and equality of blacks and your retort is that no blacks killed Jews in the holocaust, with the rejoinder that Jews owned slaves and you hinted at some deep dark revisionist history about Jews you are embarrassed to expose your ideology with. I stand by my statement that your moral relativistic outlook is unbalanced and down deep you are an anti-semite who derives pleasure from blaming Jews for the problems of others.


"Rahm Emmanuel helped organize the Oslo ceremony where Rabin shook Arafat's hand. You may have noticed that the worst enemies of Israel have led the peace process that has only weakened Israel's security and strengthened terrorism."

In case it wasn't clear before...Ian's true colors are showing. Ian you are unbalanced and down deep you are an anti-Semite and a racist who derives pleasure from blaming others for your perceived problems. Or you are just a warmonger.
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Ian

posted 11/21/08 @ 1:12 AM EST

You are an enlightened person? To make the statement that Al Queda has slandered Obama as a "house black" due to his support for Israel is simply ridiculous. They are talking about his role as chief executive in pursuing Bin Laden's capture, his support for the war in Afghanistan and you may even have noticed he doesn't particularly like American values or place in the world. You have encapsulated into his animosity to Israel and that says more about you than about Al Queda. Maybe you can write Bin Laden and ask for a more detailed statement.
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Ian

posted 11/21/08 @ 3:14 AM EST

JJ: Until now I responded to your statements with respect. To say that Jews use the holocaust to profit in some way, to win an argument, is pure stupidity. In fact, you use slavery for that purpose. The holocaust wasn't a crime against the Jews, it was a crime against humanity, even against you. I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to understand that.
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James

posted 11/21/08 @ 2:37 PM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 JJ: Until now I responded to your statements with respect. To say that Jews use the holocaust to profit in some way, to win an argument, is pure stupidity. In fact, you use slavery for that purpose. The holocaust wasn't a crime against the Jews, it was a crime against humanity, even against you. I feel sorry for you that you don't seem to understand that.


It is you Ian who brought up the holocaust first and it is you who doesn't understand that the vast majority of us Jews don't like it when the minuscule minority of Jews like you who have a very self centered, narrow view of the world accuse everyone of antisemitism for not agreeing with every absurd assertion you make. Seriously, get over yourself and your moral certitude that everything you say is right.
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Ian

posted 11/21/08 @ 4:44 PM EST

James: I suggest you make yourself useful and try defending your own people who are under attack and facing future threats, instead of doing nothing but complain about someone doing something. Talk about getting over yourself. It requires doing something rather than putting your head in the sand. There are moral absolutes and that is what religion is about. Some use these absolutes to kill for sadistic pleasure and some use them to build civilization that is just and good. I suggest you decide which absolutes appear to be of more value in the world you also live in so you don't just take up space, until someone asks you to move along. Anybody with a brain knows the world has natural laws that need to be learned and understood and these include the mind and philosophy. Until we learn how to think and act, with moral principles underlying these, we are on a path to destruction, and not just the Jews who are seen as thinking too much, but everyone. As Jews, it is our responsibility to contribute to the world we know a knowledge and viewpoint that others may not have due to their own viewpoint being different. It is our responsibility and I'm tired of supposed Jews telling other Jews to shut-up. So James, get a life and try to act like a Jew, which you claim to be. If values had been important, if the former FED chairman Alan Greenspan thought like a Jew instead of following the philosophy of Ayn Rand, maybe we could proudly say we prevented the failure of capitalism and the price it costs to everyone. I suggest James, try acting just a little more Jewish and see if people appreciate you more. I bet they would And don't defend the new anti-semites who are liberals who like to blame Israel for all the worlds problems. Maybe your not smart enough to notice, but JJ has adopted the Nation of Islam theory that slavery was a Jewish only enterprise, that everyone involved was a Jew or converted Jew with a Christian name. Instead of Islam taking responsibility for leading the slave trade and it being sanctioned in the Koran, they want to blame Jews for everything including the Inquisition. I suggest, James you decide if Jews are the source of all evil in the world, which liberals and Moslems claim, or we are the fountainhead of civilization and have contributed to most of what is good in the world. James, its your call.
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Nathan Hakimi

posted 11/21/08 @ 7:17 PM EST

Really? Come on. No U.S. president could ever abandon Israel; it is as bipartisan a stance as support for Veterans. Obama is a wise, judicious man who will undoubtedly see things differently than hawks, but will no doubt do his best to bring stability to the Middle East. I wish I could assuage your fears, but I suspect that your doubts are founded on some ingrained faulty perceptions and I cannot change those. Plus he's already been elected, so who cares! Yay!
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Ian

posted 11/21/08 @ 10:29 PM EST

Once again the problem is directed at me and once again your true nature is exposed. This latest comment really says it all. At least this person asks a rhetorical question, if something is really possible, that support of Israel could be decreased. But this question is secondary to what is seen as really important, jumping on the Obama bandwagon as a cheerleader, to feel part of something bigger than oneself, ie. making history. This is the problem, being desperate to feel part of something larger than oneself, and this was my initial comment, that Jews should be more circumspect in joining a movement based on insecurity and disillusionment without having a solution or position that can lessen the stress and fear. This last comment places the problem with me, making me a scapegoat for this feeling of anxiety. Thanks for making my argument successful and exposing the dangers of the Obama era that is on the horizon. Spineless liberal Jews will be a factor in how Israel is treated and we have seen all too well where this group leads, a blind acceptance of the argument of terrorists and anti-semites. I have become well educated by the comments on this thread about how apathetic American Jews are to the causes that relate to them. They think of it as entertaining. Life has become something not to be taken serious, lifestyle is everything. It may be helpful to know, that Bin Laden and others, see them as useful victims and in Israel they are known as suckers. Pretend innocence doesn't immunize one to reality and luckily there are serious people taking up the slack in saving liberal Jews from their own folly. I shouldn't have expected more from college students, and Brandeis is obviously a hotbed of assimilation and self-loathing. Good luck in the real world, you'll need it.
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Ian

posted 11/22/08 @ 2:31 AM EST

I enjoy the hypocrisy of liberal Jews who worry more about global warming than Iran having nuclear weapons to perpetrate the next holocaust. To them its no more than a hand warmer, warming oneself against the cold. Try calculating how much a nuclear war in the middle east will warm up the earth's atmosphere. Do something useful.
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Ian

posted 11/22/08 @ 4:07 AM EST

Taking this argument outside, here's a quote from a Nation magazine columnist already disillusioned by the right wing character of the choices made by Obama so far.
Frances Fox Piven in a November 13 article entitled, "Obama Needs a Protest Movement." While hailing Obama's victory at the polls as a "rightful cause for jubilation," Piven takes a somewhat more clear-eyed approach to the president-elect's character.

"Let's face it: Barack Obama is not a visionary or even a movement leader," she writes. Rather, she describes him as a "skillful politician" who "has to conciliate ... in realms dominated by big-money contributors from Wall Street, powerful business lobbyists and a Congress that includes conservative Blue Dog and Wall Street-oriented Democrats." It's not Obama's fault, she adds, "It's simply the way it is."
McCain and Palin would have been more progressive than this dead in the water Obama administration.
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Ian

posted 11/24/08 @ 8:07 AM EST

Within every liberal is a republican waiting to be born or aborted. The difference is that a liberal has turned hypocrisy into an art form.
I recommend the life stories of Irene Nemirovsky and Sabrina Spielrein as illustrative of the striving for changing the world to find inclusion and acceptance and discovering that they really belong and never left their Jewish roots. Tragically their reaffirmation of their Jewish faith was consecrated with their blood spilled by the Nazis. Their greatness was in recognizing the hypocrisy of their families and cultures that strove to betray their true natures in assimilating or finding a satisfying substitute. Their authentic sense told them it was pure folly and worse and they stayed true to themselves, but society only saw them for what they were, people of the Jewish faith and a threat. I only hope that liberal Jews who may read this will not have to rediscover their true selves in tragic circumstances, which may be marked by the separation and estrangement from their Israeli brethren.
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Adam Schwartzbaum

posted 11/25/08 @ 8:58 PM EST

IAN wrote "Now I am once again concerned over the puppy controversy, that they have been unable to find a hypoallergenic puppy. This seems to be a secular manifestation of the Islamic belief that dogs saliva is unholy and prevents their prayers from being heard, if they are exposed to dog saliva."

LOLZ!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
BREAK OUT THE TIN FOIL HATS PEOPLE! THE ALIENS ARE COMIN' TO GET US! I MEAN, THE MUSLIMS!
Seriously, Ian, SERIOUSLY, you have got to be kidding. Obama's daughter is ALLERGIC TO DOG HAIR. That's why they are getting a hypoallergenic dog. I know what that's like, as I am a dog owner who is also allergic to dog hair. Spinning something like this into some sort of closet-Islamism is beyond ridicule... its insane! Evidence that you are clearly mentally unhinged, to say the very least.

My advice to all rational thinking people (if you've read this far down) is to ignore people like Ian and focus on supporting PRESIDENT ELECT BARACK OBAMA (Damn that feels good to say!) achieve all the important things we need to do to change our country for the better. The loony right wing extreme has been marginalized by our country after showing that they are led by nuts like Ian, and we should just smile and wave as they sink deeper into the depths of their own fear. As long as people like Ian and Dan Savage and Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter and Sean Hannity represents the right in this country, they will never rise to majority power again in the 21st century. So I say, let em keep shouting!
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Ian

posted 11/26/08 @ 12:57 AM EST

Yes, Adam I heard that his daughter is allergic to dog hair, so why doesn't she get treated? There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. And what about not celebrating birthdays? What about Obama? Is he a Moslem or not? He stopped going to Church on Sunday now that he is President, preferring to work out. I guess well just have to wait and see what he does to Israel with his anti-Israel advisors.
The problem is this bandwagon of blind revelry in support of someone nobody knows anything about, except for his association with Palestinians, former terrorists, radical preachers and Farrakhan. Obama is preparing to recreate a country falling apart under the republicans, in his own image, and if his candidacy is something to base one's opinion upon, it will be a stealth operation using force. We are already seeing his embrace of everything Bush, no sign of change anywhere, so my guess is all change will be in foreign policy and particularly in regards to Israel. The problem in America is ideology, the one-dimensional way of seeing the world, that one way is right or wrong, with no middle-ground. So liberals see the world as all problems being solvable through dialogue, mutual understanding and kindness towards one another. America is in desperate need of financial resources at present because of the wasted trillions since Reagan in promoting the image of America being perfect without the requirement of work, that money will grow on trees and our generosity is in giving the slave labor states our manufacturing jobs as a gift, to help them create a capitalist economy, a win-win situation. Now America is gone begging to the arabs and China for money to finance the bailouts. And surprise-surprise, we are told the Saudi peace plan is a gift from God, so that Israel becomes the scapegoat of American failed financial policy, the fear of Iran's regional domination and liberal sympathy for the poor misunderstood Palestinians who only want peace. But an earlier comment suggesting zionism may have been a mistake says it all. Imagine, if only the refugees from the holocaust could have been told that, that there is no place in the world for them to live, they should have returned to Germany and Austria and Poland and Hungry and hoped for the best, and many did stay in Russia, until recently immigrating to Israel. How refreshing it is that Jews in America can pronounce judgment on whats right for the world's Jews, while they assimilate into non-existence. How proudly they pronounce their reform Judaism credentials and don't see a reason for Israel to exist, because in a world of moral relativism, there are no absolutes, so Israel's existence is an affront to the new world of multi-culturalism. No matter that Islam proclaims its dominance over all other cultures and religions, that in Malaysia, yoga has been banned due to its corrupting influence. When I say its time for Jews to wake up instead of retreat into multi-culturalism, when the threat is real and growing daily, when the threat of a nuclear holocaust approaches rapidly, they just want to roll over and go back to sleep. While the bubbles of post-modern reality are all popping and society discovers there is nothing to believe in, not having worked to build a common narrative, we have a place putting all its hopes into the ability of one man to recreate American society. That is how monumental the task is of someone nobody knows anything about. The republicans did seem to understand Obama's nature when they pointed out that Ayers on 9/11 said he wished he had done more against the war in his activities as head of the Weather Underground. They just didn't say aloud that there are Americas who thought Bin Laden was right to destroy the WTC because of America's arrogance. And these people support Obama wholeheartedly. The real Obama will only become obvious if control is gained over the financial meltdown and for that we may all be lucky, especially those in Israel. And by the way, I'm a socialist.
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Southern Baptists Laughing at Ian Right Now

posted 11/26/08 @ 4:14 AM EST

[QUOTE]That is what I loved about the Southern Baptists and still do, they openly told me I wasn't going to heaven, but in this rejection I realized that they think of us as very important people. It was easy to see this being because we have a rich history and tradition.[/QUOTE]

Ha ha ha! HA HA HA!! I'd laugh harder but I'm out of oxygen--something I apparently share in common with Ian.

Ian, my poor, deranged fellow: you are quite right that the Southern Baptists and many other evangelical Christian Zionists think that we Jews are very important people. But you are quite incorrect that this is because they believe we "have a rich history and tradition." The reason the Southern Baptist Convention and many (but not all) evangelicals support Jewish control of Israel is because the Jews returning to biblical Palestine is a precondition to Armageddon and the return of the Messiah (that's Jesus, if you're keeping score--not Elijah or anyone else you'd be interested in, Ian). The whole point is that Jews must return to Israel so that all of the Jews and other non-Christians of the world can be annihilated in a bloody holocaust and clear way for the "saved" pious Christians to inherit the earth and, you know, party with Jesus like it's 1999.

And just so no one confuses me for Ian, what with the outlandish comments and no support, I'm going to provide a citation to my assertion here: (http://www.allbusiness.com/human-resources/workforce-management-conflict-resolution/206949-1.html). But don't worry, sports fans; Ian will not be at risk of spraining his finger from clicking on this link because I'm quite certain he won't click on it in the first place. Reading anything other than his own handiwork would be too onerous, not to mention unbecoming a genius of his caliber. In this respect Ian reminds me very much of another great president, Abraham Lincoln--after all, they are both self-taught.

I suppose you could make the argument that needing us to die a cataclysmic death in Armageddon qualifies as a "rich history and tradition," if you are referring to it in the future tense. But, while I'm certainly happy to shake my money-maker as a bona fide V.I.P., you'll forgive me if I don't exactly toast the sentiment behind the outpouring of affection. Judging by how wasted Ian sounds when he writes words into his computer, I'm concerned he has raised a few too many toasts to his newfound BFFs.

Ian, you need a hug. A nice big man-hug. I will totally give you one and even let you cry on my shoulder until all the pain goes away, but only if you promise me that you are in fact a real person and not some computer-generated algorithm designed to systematically seek out and destroy all examples of logic and compassion and hope on the interwebs. Can you do that for me? Wait, STOP! If you just began to type "yes" but were overcome with a feeling of "does not compute," then you've answered my question whether or not you have actual human flesh wrapped around that diabolical circuit board of yours."

And for the fair-minded among you who are reading and participating in this hilarious exchange (and that seems to be everyone whose name doesn't begin with "Ian"), I have to admit that much of this post came in the form of ad hominem attacks on Ian the person rather than Ian the ideas. But at a certain point, well, even the most liberal and tolerant among us need to disregard the possibility that he will have anything of value to say and instead focus on making lemonade with his words. Does that sound tasty, Ian?
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Ian

posted 11/26/08 @ 7:32 AM EST

Before I read your hysteric response, I need to point out that your first comment is completely wrong. I didn't say the S.Baptists appreciate our rich history and tradition. I said it is easy for me to interpret their critique positively because of my own knowledge of our rich tradition and history. Now I will attempt to deal with the rest of it, hoping there is something logical to consider in it, though I doubt it. To understand the S.Baptists and Jews accepting their prophet is due to the inability to accept the Jews place in the historic process except for in their disappearance, but it is the last sign of the return of their Prophet, which indicates our importance in their belief system. It also indicates the importance of our role in the historic process and the reason we are seen as the enemy of others. Try to think or ask before commenting.
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Ian

posted 11/26/08 @ 8:05 AM EST

The algorithm is knee-jerk liberalism. The computer has replaced thought in our post-modern world. We assume all knowledge exists within the computer, not in the world we inhabit. If the S. Baptists are on a path to destruction, armageddon, I drive by har megiddo everyday to work, isn't it our responsibility as Jews to prevent it by proving the world can be perfect, as God created it, and doesn't require a rebirth after a destructive fire and final judgment, implicit being that nature is corrupt. We don't accept that initial judgment and isn't it our responsibility to prove them wrong? That is my complaint, that at Brandeis more effort is made at fitting in than making an impact on the world, which is what all of us are here for. I seem to be outnumbered by those who think otherwise.
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Ian

posted 11/26/08 @ 11:46 AM EST

Isn't it possible that Gore is the new preacher of fire and brimstone, the secular prophet of doom, warning us about the evil of our ways, and wouldn't this put global warning into the category of Christian apocalyptic thinking, about God's judgment and an ecological armageddon. Shouldn't this put it into perspective for Jews? Shouldn't Jews be worried about being caught up in a war of civilizations, between global capitalism and global jihad, and the development of nuclear weapons in accelerated fashion in Iran, under the apocalyptic mullahs.
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Ian

posted 11/26/08 @ 3:07 PM EST

Warnings over potential terrorist attacks in the NY subway. A huge and well organized al queda attack in Bombay and the taking of western hostages. The multi-cultural loving Americans elect a novice, Obama to lead America with the hugest crisis in history domestically and internationally, a president-elect who likes talking about turkey recipes and similar nonsense at a press conference, doing his JFK impression. What a sad and pathetic joke. McCain would have led America on both fronts to economic and defensive security. Americans seem to be living on a vegetative state intellectually. Better wake up America. The turkeys at Thanksgiving may not just be the main course.
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Still laughing, just crying a little too

posted 11/27/08 @ 12:34 AM EST

Originally posted by

Ian

 Warnings over potential terrorist attacks in the NY subway. A huge and well organized al queda attack in Bombay and the taking of western hostages. The multi-cultural loving Americans elect a novice, Obama to lead America with the hugest crisis in history domestically and internationally, a president-elect who likes talking about turkey recipes and similar nonsense at a press conference, doing his JFK impression. What a sad and pathetic joke. McCain would have led America on both fronts to economic and defensive security. Americans seem to be living on a vegetative state intellectually. Better wake up America. The turkeys at Thanksgiving may not just be the main course.


Do you notice how there is rarely any middle ground in anything you say, Ian? That should raise warning flags. Obama is a sad and pathetic joke before he even begins, but McCain would magically deliver economic and defensive security. Obama makes a turkey joke at a press conference before Thanksgiving and that makes him an unworthy idiot, but McCain would never do such a thing. The problem with seeing things in black and white is that you quickly box yourself in. McCain has publicly stated that he agrees with all of Obama's moves so far, praising him highly. And you know what, I'm quite certain McCain would make a turkey joke or two at his press conference as president-elect. You can't have it both ways.

You know, I agree with you, Ian. I supported Hillary Clinton over Obama with a great deal of passion because I thought that she was far more experienced and proven (and pro-Israel). But we elected Obama. He's my guy now, he's our guy. I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like you're not a U.S. citizen. If you are one, try to rally behind your country and give everyone a greater chance at overcoming our challenges by supporting your new President. Keep him honest, but support him. If you are not a U.S. citizen, however, lay off our guy! We deserve to have a chance to believe and succeed, and we don't need your venom sprayed all over us in the process.

I wonder what kind of grades you get on your college essays. The mini essays you've written here have lacked the kind of rational argument that I hope Brandeis professors still demand and reward.
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